This Ain't Me Talking to YOU IT's GAWD TALKING TO YOU!
As a result of several discussions that I have been in with sincere religious people of late, ministers and non, it caused me to think of an occasion, some years ago, when I was watching the ComicView program on Black Entertainment Television.
A comedian, Arnaz I believe was his name, a black American, who was obviously raised up in the black church, centered his styche and hilarious comedic routine around his experiences at a black church. At the time, his pastor when preaching often injected the phrase: “This 'ain't me talking to you, it's GAWD talking to you”, when attempting to get 'his' point of view across during a sermon or polemic!
I was more than amused. On the other hand, individuals who believed what the minster said, that it was God talking to them, would have reached the conclusion that his routine was sacrilegious, because God was in fact speaking through their beloved minister. His comedic performance, reminded me of all of the years that I spent growing up in the church, full-gospel for some of you who need to know, and believe that your group either invented or discovered full-gospel religion.
When our preachers preached, it was never them preaching or talking to you, either. In other words, what they believed, and were saying or teaching at the time, had been channeled through them by God, who was in turn talking to us the audience-members. However, is it always true that God is talking to you via a minister, even during those times times when the minister is preaching? Some ministers believe that what they say or have learned to say, given their years of Bible study, growing up in a church, or under the intensive years of indoctrination that they have received, comes either directly from God, or others who received direct revelation from God and passed it on to them.
I angered a dear friend-minister of mine, in the manner that I seem to be doing with most everyone else of late, when I said: "The bible does contradict itself"! And of course he gave the perfunctory, "no it doesn't, you simply have to know how to interpret it", the implication being that anyone else who reads some of what is written in the the bible, and notices the contradictions, is dumb, lacks understanding or is apostate or the devil! Now if you are from that school of thought, you will agree with my friend that the Canon is for example, unadulterated.
But to my way of thinking believers, is it any wonder then, that the world has so many different religious groups, denominations, sects and schools of thought, not just in Christianity alone? If the bible was consistent, there wouldn't be so many of the above, because every word or phrase would agree. However, all of us know that is not the case, is it? In addition to the preacher whom, "Gawd is talking through", most sincere Christians have 5 or 10 bibles, a commentary, a concordance, biblical helps, tapes, favorite television teachers and preachers ... yet they cannott seem to find common ground, within their specific religious circles. Why would a loving God, create such a high-stakes game, wherein the majority of people, if Christianity is correct, are going to burn forever and ever and ever? Doesn't that sound like something that a human would conjur up, and write or say that, Gawd told me that?
When our preachers preached, it was never them preaching or talking to you, either. In other words, what they believed, and were saying or teaching at the time, had been channeled through them by God, who was in turn talking to us the audience-members. However, is it always true that God is talking to you via a minister, even during those times times when the minister is preaching? Some ministers believe that what they say or have learned to say, given their years of Bible study, growing up in a church, or under the intensive years of indoctrination that they have received, comes either directly from God, or others who received direct revelation from God and passed it on to them.
I angered a dear friend-minister of mine, in the manner that I seem to be doing with most everyone else of late, when I said: "The bible does contradict itself"! And of course he gave the perfunctory, "no it doesn't, you simply have to know how to interpret it", the implication being that anyone else who reads some of what is written in the the bible, and notices the contradictions, is dumb, lacks understanding or is apostate or the devil! Now if you are from that school of thought, you will agree with my friend that the Canon is for example, unadulterated.
But to my way of thinking believers, is it any wonder then, that the world has so many different religious groups, denominations, sects and schools of thought, not just in Christianity alone? If the bible was consistent, there wouldn't be so many of the above, because every word or phrase would agree. However, all of us know that is not the case, is it? In addition to the preacher whom, "Gawd is talking through", most sincere Christians have 5 or 10 bibles, a commentary, a concordance, biblical helps, tapes, favorite television teachers and preachers ... yet they cannott seem to find common ground, within their specific religious circles. Why would a loving God, create such a high-stakes game, wherein the majority of people, if Christianity is correct, are going to burn forever and ever and ever? Doesn't that sound like something that a human would conjur up, and write or say that, Gawd told me that?
Now, to be honest, which one of us at one time or another, has not believed that God was either talking directly to or through us, and on the other hand that something that we read, or a revelation or illumination that we received at the time, came directly from God itself? In the church that I grew up in, FULL Gospel for those of you who are on a need to know basis, the church decided that we should no longer say, "something told me", when referring to some new revalatory knowledge that we had received. Instead, we were taught to simply say this, "Gawd told me"!
Were the people of the church that I grew up in and with sincere and wonderful people? Answer, of course they were, even if they believed that just about everyone else in Christianity was going to hell, who didn't understand every jot and tittle, in the manner that they did. Let's be fair now, for if Gawd is talking to you, then who is talking to the other so-called but fake or ignorant Christians or members of other religious groups? Disappointment, often comes later in life when we understand that what we took to have been a message from God has been debunked. Ministers, can be very quiet about what they previously taught during those times, er herm!
Is there any such thing as a God. I believe that there is something that exists, that we refer to as God. I am not so sure that the modifiers used to describe God, are what God really is – most of them are very sophomoric descriptions of a super-human or supernatural being. And the problem with sophomoric interpretations of God is this, that we teach others about a sophomoric God and that they are to believe in a sophomoric God, and by so doing, we limit God to a superficial framework that we have created or imagined.
Then God becomes limited and defined by our understanding or interpretations of what we believe God to be. And that is essentially what happened to the entities, machinations of our minds and imaginations, that we refer to as God ... Have you ever experienced someone to tell you man or woman, I always thought that you were this way, and you are nothing like that at all"? I suspect that is will happen when and if people ever figure out what God is, or if we were to meet God, on the other hand, face to face, spirit to spirit or in the ethereal.
Most Christians who have known me for years, if you were to speak with them, would say, I have known him for years and he was raised in a full-Gospel church from the time that he was born. He was born again at the age of 21, spoke in tongues, has remarkable gifts in the spirit, is a gifted preacher, teacher, evangelist, radio personality ... but similar to Carlton Pearson and others who have fallen by the wayside, somehow he has lost his way.
And why might they say that? Let me give you an idea of why someone who has known me for years would say that? It is because I am saying something different from what I once believed and taught, or that contradicts what they believe. And the other reason is this, how can I be right, when I am contradicting what God (the one that talks to them), or their interpretation of what they read in the Christian canon! Keep in mind that the power of belief can be very powerful, in and of it self. Most action, is predicated upon belief.
Let me list some of the things that I really believe:
Most religions that I know anything about, are not much different from Christianity in this since, their followers read from books, have teachers to dispense 'true knowledge' to them, are organized around a particular framework and are locked into that framework and they are typically monotheistic. But beyond that, they cannot agree upon what God is, refuse to accept the fact that they could be wrong or that their counterparts in other religious faiths could be right, as well or apart from what they believe and teach..
I believe that religion, most religious groups and their incumbent ministers, pastors, members ... are stuck at the principle phase; which is to say, that they are not making up what they believe or claim to believe as truth. It is not that not they are not sincere, they are simply stuck in the principle phase, and cannot get out of the first grade, and their teachers won't allow them to get out of the first grade,lest they be accused of being heretics, apostate, backsliders or individuals who have fallen away. And what does that do to 'the doctrine of eternal security? That not even God, could move them away from their entrenched belief systems or indoctrination, is a fact.
Do you recall what happened to Jesus, when he attempted to do so with his Jewish ancestors, brothers and sisters, in other words, to take them to the next step? Can you say, "crucify him"? I believe that there is something much bigger than what religious organizations, who have stopped somewhere along the way on or their individual religious crusades, believe. Simply, consider how Reverend Camping, ministers like the late Reverends Armstrong, Jones and others made and have made complete fools out of themselves. Reverend Camping, who does not live to far from here, declared that he didn't rely upon any source, other than the Canon, in order to arrive at truth. He was wrong. Consider the 17th Century Church, that placed scientist, Sir. Isaac Newton, a man who proved that 'the church can be and often is wrong, under house, or if you prefer, church arrest!!
I don't believe that God is talking to most religious people or religions of the world, or why is it that they cannot get along even within their own ranks, religious organizations, parishes, local churches? Why is it that they believe that they can repeat the same behavior, year after year and arrive at a different destination?
I believe that religion, if anything, can be a stepping stone, one that could be useful in launching an individual or organization to even deeper understanding, if they were to take the next step. However, the latter happens to be something which most of them resist, that is to take a step on the wild-side. Jesus had to do so with the Jews and Judaism, (and look where that Got him)? But he still taught them to leave the principles, and to be fulfilled! it.
I believe that any one who believes or claims to be a believers, ought to open up and have their entrenched beliefs, doctrine and indoctrination challenged that they should step away from believing that everything that comes into their minds or from their own limited understandings or preferred channels, is God talking to them. Religious substrates, can be as dangerous as any other kind of substrate, if not more dangerous. For example, how many sane reportedly, and insane individuals go crazy, and kill someone in the name of God, or because God told them to do it?
I don't believe that God is religious by nature, the Canon seems to report that in numerous texts, for example, many writers in the Hebrew scriptures, reported that God got tired of religious sacrifices, ceremonies and oblations, of the kind that are being foisted upon most people in religious organizations to this day.
Most religions that I know anything about, are not much different from Christianity in this since, their followers read from books, have teachers to dispense 'true knowledge' to them, are organized around a particular framework and are locked into that framework and they are typically monotheistic. But beyond that, they cannot agree upon what God is, refuse to accept the fact that they could be wrong or that their counterparts in other religious faiths could be right, as well or apart from what they believe and teach..
I believe that religion, most religious groups and their incumbent ministers, pastors, members ... are stuck at the principle phase; which is to say, that they are not making up what they believe or claim to believe as truth. It is not that not they are not sincere, they are simply stuck in the principle phase, and cannot get out of the first grade, and their teachers won't allow them to get out of the first grade,lest they be accused of being heretics, apostate, backsliders or individuals who have fallen away. And what does that do to 'the doctrine of eternal security? That not even God, could move them away from their entrenched belief systems or indoctrination, is a fact.
Do you recall what happened to Jesus, when he attempted to do so with his Jewish ancestors, brothers and sisters, in other words, to take them to the next step? Can you say, "crucify him"? I believe that there is something much bigger than what religious organizations, who have stopped somewhere along the way on or their individual religious crusades, believe. Simply, consider how Reverend Camping, ministers like the late Reverends Armstrong, Jones and others made and have made complete fools out of themselves. Reverend Camping, who does not live to far from here, declared that he didn't rely upon any source, other than the Canon, in order to arrive at truth. He was wrong. Consider the 17th Century Church, that placed scientist, Sir. Isaac Newton, a man who proved that 'the church can be and often is wrong, under house, or if you prefer, church arrest!!
I don't believe that God is talking to most religious people or religions of the world, or why is it that they cannot get along even within their own ranks, religious organizations, parishes, local churches? Why is it that they believe that they can repeat the same behavior, year after year and arrive at a different destination?
I believe that religion, if anything, can be a stepping stone, one that could be useful in launching an individual or organization to even deeper understanding, if they were to take the next step. However, the latter happens to be something which most of them resist, that is to take a step on the wild-side. Jesus had to do so with the Jews and Judaism, (and look where that Got him)? But he still taught them to leave the principles, and to be fulfilled! it.
I believe that any one who believes or claims to be a believers, ought to open up and have their entrenched beliefs, doctrine and indoctrination challenged that they should step away from believing that everything that comes into their minds or from their own limited understandings or preferred channels, is God talking to them. Religious substrates, can be as dangerous as any other kind of substrate, if not more dangerous. For example, how many sane reportedly, and insane individuals go crazy, and kill someone in the name of God, or because God told them to do it?
I don't believe that God is religious by nature, the Canon seems to report that in numerous texts, for example, many writers in the Hebrew scriptures, reported that God got tired of religious sacrifices, ceremonies and oblations, of the kind that are being foisted upon most people in religious organizations to this day.
Now for Christians … how come God, as you interpret God and have predicted that God would do, has not returned yet? And how come none of the eschatological positions and predictions, as stated in apocalyptic texts, the ones that Christians have been waiting for over a 2000 year period to come true, have not come true yet?
Could it be because you are wrong, or the person that taught you was wrong as well? Again, Reverend Camping, comes to mind. Let me be clear, based upon what I have studied, even the Apostle Paul's prediction about what we refer to as 'the Rapture, that he discussed in his letter to the Church at Thessalonica, appears to have been wrong. Depending on your conclusion about the article that he used when he wrote, he apparently did not expect to die at the time, but instead, expected to be raptured, along with individuals living at the time.
On the other hand, in another context, he seemed to understand that his departure was eminent, and he looked forward to it? Another contradiction perhaps? Could it simply be possible, that God intended for humans, for example, to be participants in what humans refer to as eternal life? Most Christians cringe when you mention terms like evolution. However, from all indications, it would appear that even what the Canon and most Christians refer to as God, was the creator of a divine evolutionary life-cycle.
Could it be because you are wrong, or the person that taught you was wrong as well? Again, Reverend Camping, comes to mind. Let me be clear, based upon what I have studied, even the Apostle Paul's prediction about what we refer to as 'the Rapture, that he discussed in his letter to the Church at Thessalonica, appears to have been wrong. Depending on your conclusion about the article that he used when he wrote, he apparently did not expect to die at the time, but instead, expected to be raptured, along with individuals living at the time.
On the other hand, in another context, he seemed to understand that his departure was eminent, and he looked forward to it? Another contradiction perhaps? Could it simply be possible, that God intended for humans, for example, to be participants in what humans refer to as eternal life? Most Christians cringe when you mention terms like evolution. However, from all indications, it would appear that even what the Canon and most Christians refer to as God, was the creator of a divine evolutionary life-cycle.
Most Christians are waiting to be transformed, changed or transmogrified and afterward to be placed into a new body, while retaining a knowledge and the character of who they happened to be before. Again, could God, be waiting for us to make it happen, as opposed to our waiting for God to come back and change everything in a 'twinkling', not a 'blinking' of an eye? We are just about at the place now, where we can remove human consciousness and the personality of an individual from the body, and place it in another body. What did he say? Is it possible that the knowledge is already, mostly available, but humans cannot see it, because their religious beliefs, some of them based on mere superstition is holding them back from attaining to the principles of knowledge and understanding that they should had several years after appearing on the earth, much less thousands of years later?
I do not question the sincerity of most religious people in religious organization or denomination that I know of and the ones that I don't know anything about, why not? All too often, they are sincere and seeking answers just as most other religious groups are doing. However, when so many different organizations insist that they are the one that is correct or all knowing, then that leaves room for doubt, because the other group down the street, across the pond … believes the same thing about their group, and the 2 of them contradict what the other one has to say. Do I have an answer to this conundrum? Yes, but you wouldn't like it. Religion? Opiate? Er herm!
Yes, each of us has the right, apparently, to seek for'the truth' as some put it, but instead understanding for ourselves. Who can deny anyone that right? And what if those of us who believe that there is a problem with religion and most religious texts, do turn out to be wrong? Answer: Our contretemps, will be happy, because they will have received their most treasured prize, the ability to say the following, 'I was right", when everyone else was wrong", and that my friends is called 'ego'.
And by the way, if you are wondering if this is me talking to you or God talking to you, it is I. But I suppose that my learned opinion and experiences (a student of religion itself ...) is just about as good as anyone elses. I suggest that you seek the truth, and let it find you. And, to beware of closed minded, limited teachers and preachers. Finally, whatever you do, don't confuse your understanding, an understanding that has been shaped from limited experiences, time on earth, texts and limited frameworks, with God speaking, uniquely, to you, for that is also ego. Yes, I know that you can read for yourself, but it is not necessarily true that what you have read and have put so much weight upon, is entirely accurate!
Yes, each of us has the right, apparently, to seek for'the truth' as some put it, but instead understanding for ourselves. Who can deny anyone that right? And what if those of us who believe that there is a problem with religion and most religious texts, do turn out to be wrong? Answer: Our contretemps, will be happy, because they will have received their most treasured prize, the ability to say the following, 'I was right", when everyone else was wrong", and that my friends is called 'ego'.
And by the way, if you are wondering if this is me talking to you or God talking to you, it is I. But I suppose that my learned opinion and experiences (a student of religion itself ...) is just about as good as anyone elses. I suggest that you seek the truth, and let it find you. And, to beware of closed minded, limited teachers and preachers. Finally, whatever you do, don't confuse your understanding, an understanding that has been shaped from limited experiences, time on earth, texts and limited frameworks, with God speaking, uniquely, to you, for that is also ego. Yes, I know that you can read for yourself, but it is not necessarily true that what you have read and have put so much weight upon, is entirely accurate!
In conclusion: I am not attempting to 'shake your faith', I am hoping to 'rewaken it', by that I mean your faith in something other than religion or the god of religion
Peace and grace,
Scriptural quote: They said that I said, and I never spoke to them. It makes you wonder, for what length of time have people spoken and written, even though they didn't know what they what they were writing about or talking about?
Scriptural quote: They said that I said, and I never spoke to them. It makes you wonder, for what length of time have people spoken and written, even though they didn't know what they what they were writing about or talking about?
posted by Solomon at 12:52 PM
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